Formidable creative duo Will & Carly are no strangers to the pages of DN with their focus on the social and political forces which shape society today explored through an attuned and perceptive filmmaking approach. Their previous project FILTERFACE, a satirical dance indictment of self-obsession and projected perfection, concentrated on the effect of social media on young girls and with their new thought provoking piece TITS: A Voyage Into Objectification, the duo turn their focus towards young men with a similar biting edge. As the couple were watching Edgar Wright’s documentary on the Sparks Brothers, they were struck by the discordance of the track Tits in which a man laments about his disappointment at the repurposing of his wife’s breasts to feed his child. This inspired them to delve head first into their own exploration of the perception of breasts, specifically from a young male gaze – juxtaposing uncensored anonymous male thoughts about female breasts against deeply considered 16mm footage of women who truly represent the beautifully diverse array of real breasts. It was our pleasure to catch up with Will & Carly again to speak about some of the more underground elements of the project, creating a welcoming and secure female-only shoot and the lunatic censorship and prohibitions put on work such as this in a period when graphic and damaging porn is just one click away.
[Needless to say, the following film and interview feature numerous images of naked breasts]
How did you approach the initial research for this project?
As we began to delve into the matter it became abundantly clear that pornography and social media, which uphold unattainable and unrealistic beauty standards for women’s bodies, play a huge role in the way that young men are growing up and interacting with the female form. In one recent article, we were shocked and saddened to read that most young boys have seen a digital gang bang before having their first real life kiss. We wanted to create something that dramatised the disparity between ‘fantasy’ and ‘reality’, so thought it would be interesting to tell two stories through two different mediums, one audio and one visual.
We wanted young men to leave their uncensored and honest opinions in their natural environments rather than doing focus groups or surveys.
It’s not exactly a subject matter for a quick census. How did you come up with your method for collecting the unfiltered audio clips you needed to go alongside the visuals?
One of the most important parts of pre prod was setting up our “Tits Hotline”, a freephone number boys could leave anonymous voice messages on. The aim of this was to gain an unfiltered insight into what young men thought about breasts within contemporary society. The first challenge was getting the number out in the wild. We fly-postered ourselves multiple times under the cover of darkness (as flyposting is technically illegal). Some nights we plastered over 200 posters – impressive considering Carly was heavily pregnant at the time. We also shared the poster with university societies and friends who kindly fly-postered for us around their city centres to ensure we received diverse responses that fairly depicted the breadth of the UK. We wanted young men to leave their uncensored and honest opinions in their natural environments rather than doing focus groups or surveys. There is a certain degree of freedom that comes with anonymity and this enabled us to gather some really insightful material, we received roughly 500 calls ranging from 5 seconds to 2 minutes.
I’m not shocked at all by the volume of voicemails, did you know what you were looking for before you began whittling them down? What parameters determined the messages that were included in the final film?
Some people just wanted to shout “tits” down the line, while others went into great depth sharing their unfiltered thoughts. It was a really intriguing and eye opening experience sifting through hours of audio ranging from the complimentary to the crude. I don’t think we knew what to expect but it was interesting to see that women’s bodies are still very much the subject of male ideals with recurring themes running through. There was a constant repetition of words like ‘big’ ‘round’, ‘juicy’, ‘pert’ and it’s these types of descriptions that affirm that there is clearly something influencing the types of breasts that men are conditioned to find desirable.
The visual aspect of TITS is such a delight in terms of real life representation which is so far removed from what we see in porn or the like. Can you talk us through finding your incredible cast of women?
Casting breasts was our second challenge. We were keen to feature a diverse range of breasts in all shapes, sizes, textures and ethnicities to represent and celebrate the beautiful broad spectrum of women’s breasts that exist in the world. Carly had calls with all the cast to hear their stories and find out what made their breasts unique or unusual. These calls were incredibly important as she was essentially casting blind due to the sensitivity around nudity so was not able to actually see any breasts until the day of the shoot.
How did you frame the casting call to manage to get such a diverse and relatable representation of breasts on screen?
Carly: I worked alongside Casting Agent Lane Casting to find the women featured in the film. Lane reached out to women through multiple channels, including through their network, flyering, and also researching specific groups on Facebook with responsive audiences like arts, modelling and even some nudist groups. It was important to make it clear to everyone what the film was about. This way, we could be sure to attract people who connected with the project.
It was interesting to see that women’s bodies are still very much the subject of male ideals with recurring themes running through.
In addition, I posted a series of Instagram stories and had some female friends re-share them on their profiles. I had such an incredible response and quickly developed a one-on-one dialogue with the women who had reached out. It was great as I was able to get an idea of their stories from early on in the casting process. Off the back of this, I held Zoom interviews with each of the women to find out about their breasts. Due to the sensitivity around nudity, I was not able to actually see any breasts until the day of the shoot. This made the Zoom interviews incredibly important as I was essentially casting blind and relying on our conversations to understand their insecurities around their breasts.
As these women would be revealing their breasts to you for the first time on a film set, how did you ensure it was a safe environment? Also, what were the considerations behind your choice to film them on 16mm?
We had an all-female film crew (sadly Will had to sit this part out) for the shoot and the energy on set was amazing with a real sense of sisterhood. All of the cast contacted me after, most of whom had never been on camera before let alone taken their top off, to say what a great time they’d had – that felt really special.
It was important for us to shoot on film because we wanted to celebrate these imperfectly perfect breasts in all their natural glory.
We had a very limited kit, the film was shot on an Arriflex 16 SR3, on 3 rolls of Kodak 500T and we used a combination of sticks and slider. It was important for us to shoot on film because we wanted to celebrate these imperfectly perfect breasts in all their natural glory. There is a rawness to film and it brings with it its own imperfections but it’s this quality that makes it so beautiful and for this reason alone, it felt like the right medium to shoot these sensitive filmic portraits. We also had a turntable to provide movement but it also played into the idea, showcasing the women in a theatrical way as if they were prizes on a game show.
Given the vast number of calls of various quality and content that you had available to work with the shot footage how did you approach the edit?
The most complex part of the entire process was editing down the soundbites and piecing them together into some sort of structure. With over 500 voicemails, it was a real collaborative process with our editor Meg Thorne at The Quarry. We whittled down the 2.5 hours of audio, pulling out key language and categorising it, we then hashed out different scripts where the structure was worked and then reworked until we had something that just felt right. We then paired these with jarring visuals to create maximum impact.
Were there any hesitations making the film knowing that it would be heavily censored even with your considered approach to the subject matter?
We were conscious that some platforms might censor it, i.e Instagram (who have a blanket ban on nipples yet let sexist comments and derogatory language be spouted freely) but we felt strongly that the piece needed to be made. We knew that other progressive platforms like Nowness, Vimeo, Curated By Girls and others had a more open minded view towards nudity and would support it, allowing it to be viewed in all its uncensored glory.
Can we talk about the insanity of censoring on Instagram where a small yellow “x” is enough to allow you to publish a naked breast? What do you think this does to the perception of your film and other explorations of subjects like this?
Carly: Hoooo yes please! I mean it’s laughable really isn’t it, their policy states, “You can’t show female nipples except in the context of breastfeeding, after birth, health and acts of protest” yet they still banned the uncensored version of our film. Obviously, if they had taken the time to watch it they’d realise it is most definitely an act of protest. It’s censorship policies like this that perpetuate the fetishisation of the nipple and in turn the female form.
What do you want people to take from the film and how has the reception been so far?
It will probably elicit different reactions. Some people may find it amusing, some disturbing, some embarrassing and some offensive. It’s uncomfortable watching because, on one hand, you are being shown these beautiful headless nudes whilst on the other you are hearing audio that is quite crude and coarse and it’s this rub that highlights the wild disparity between the fantasy and reality. The comments range from being quite innocent and playful to being a bit creepy, but ultimately, they boil down to the female form being objectified by the opposite sex.
It’s censorship policies like this that perpetuate the fetishisation of the nipple and in turn the female form.
Overall, we’ve had a hugely positive response, from both men and women. It’s not about demonizing men, but more about raising awareness of pornography and social media’s impact on female beauty standards.
Do you think your recent pregnancy and the birth of your baby had an affect on the vision for the film?
Carly: I was expecting a baby boy at the time of developing and filming TITS, and in the back of my mind I was wondering what kind of young man he would grow up to be and how he would be influenced by the world around him. Social media and mobile phones are great tools but their users are becoming younger and younger. Children can readily access things that are not meant for them and this is having a concerning impact on their development.
The two of you always impress with your explorations of subjects in the cultural zeitgeist, what’s next?
We are really intrigued by contemporary cultural issues both from a filmmaking but also a personal perspective – these are often things we have been directly or indirectly affected by. We’ve got a few things in the pipeline, one is exploring the idea of consent and another is looking at IVF, a journey we’ve recently been on.
