In an unknown but surprisingly appealing realm where arthouse meets grindhouse, filmmaker Talia Shea Levin has crafted something truly unique with her latest short, Make Me a Pizza. This deliciously absurd concoction blends Marxist theory, Lacanian psychoanalysis and the well-worn tropes of pizza delivery pornography into a genre-defying experience that’s equal parts erotic, horrifying and intellectual. The premise, a divine pizza entity demanding human sacrifice in the form of becoming one with pizza, sounds nonsensical on paper but in Levin’s hands, it transcends into a subversive commentary on capitalism, desire, and consumption. The visual language of Make Me a Pizza complements the thematic explorations at hand, shot on film yet fully embracing modern digital editing practices, ensuring all aspects of the film flow together with the lusciously seductive ease of melted cheese. Levin was last featured on DN in 2018 with her dance short E T A and we are delighted to welcome her back and dive into this latest endeavour, discussing her surprise at being welcomed open arms by the horror community, degrading the sound quality to match their vintage shots and satirising the prescribed heteronormative structures of traditional pornography.
How did you and your co-creators come together to form this glorious, greasy absurdist concoction?
To become a pizza was the only conclusion that made sense. The seed of our idea was to make a Marxist porno. We got from there to the classic pizza delivery trope pretty fast, and the characters’ awakening to class-consciousness helps kick off the absurdity, but that alone wouldn’t get us all the way to true depraved chaos, so we threw in some Jacques Lacan as well. Woody Coyote has Lacan’s Formula for Fantasy literally tattooed on his body. You can see it in the movie. And once Lacan is involved, you need an Other to complete the triangle necessary for all desire, and who better to serve that function than a divine embodiment of pizza demanding that her subjects sacrifice their human forms to become pizza? It seems illogical when compared to reality, but the goal was to build a world on screen where this pizza odyssey is the characters’ only option.
You’re kind of grossed out but also turned on and that’s such an erotic, intense set of emotions to tap into.
It is a real genre-mashup. I want to know more about the elements of horror and what you felt that brought to the table and expanded upon the idea.
I really didn’t know that Make Me a Pizza was a horror movie until we started getting invited to horror film festivals. The first one to invite us to submit after SXSW received an e-mail saying, “Sorry if it’s not horror enough for you, hope you didn’t send this e-mail by accident!” But then some people are so deeply disturbed by it (in the good way! I think) and the horror community is so welcoming and the most fun, we’ve been honored to be included. I always knew it was genre. I’ve never made anything set in reality, but I did try and make sense of the horror influences in hindsight.
We were so steeped in references that mash-up genres. Films by David Cronenberg, Paul Verhoeven, and John Waters. Where skin is melting but also there are naked people. You’re kind of grossed out but also turned on. And that’s such an erotic, intense set of emotions to tap into. What Woody and I agreed upon very early on is that sex is gross. And what was great about pizza as a proxy for the body is that we could be absolutely vulgar with sauce and cheese in an erotic context and do things that we’d never be able to do with real body parts. Yet.
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As this has all the Marxist and anti-capitalist undertones what were you looking for with the archival footage?
A mentor of mine Ryan Dixon, is also a consulting producer on the film, and he actually told me to write archival footage into the script during the pizza guy’s monologues and I ignored him. We then realized in the edit that he was 100% right. This whole film was about taking the creative risk, doing the most ridiculous thing we could think of, breaking our own rules, letting chaos reign. The monologues were absurd on their own but needed to reach another level, so our brilliant editor Lynn Hong and I spent days searching archival libraries for a visual grammar that would make sense. We were typing all kinds of things into that search bar, from “cows in factory” to “Russian revolution protest” and just trying to make ourselves laugh with the juxtaposition while staying true to a narrative structure. How would the dumbest guy you know teach Marxism 101? Hopefully there’s some education wrapped into our pizza porn.
This whole film was about taking the creative risk, doing the most ridiculous thing we could think of, breaking our own rules, letting chaos reign.
Did you work with an intimacy coordinator and opt for closed set protocols?
We had a wonderful intimacy coordinator, Felicia Armstrong. I had been taking intimacy coordination classes leading up to the production through Theatrical Intimacy Education (TIE) to really understand the role the same way that I, as a director, want to at least have a working base of knowledge for every role on set. And because so much of the production was going to require a closed set, the consent-forward protocols that inform IC work began to define the entire process of putting together the film. Producer Kara Grace Miller and I ensured we got a “hell yeah” from everyone who joined the team because anything other than that is a “no.”
Because so much of the production was going to require a closed set, the consent-forward protocols that inform IC work began to define the entire process of putting together the film.
Let’s get into the messiness…how did you devise the gloriously filthy sex sequence and create that montage?
Short films are structured kind of like jokes, and I don’t think a pizza porn works without the punchline of a pizza orgasm. I wanted to satirize not just the set-up of a porno, but also the structure of how sex is ‘supposed’ to happen in the very prescribed, heteronormative way that is often depicted in porn and finds its way into our real lives. That sequence was all about finding unexpected ways to involve the pizza more and more and more until we reached critical mass of sauce and cheese. In terms of execution, it was all very carefully choreographed, rehearsed, and storyboarded. That made us more confident going into the shoot day, but still nothing could prepare us for how bad it smelled in that studio. Woody and co-star Sophie Neff are heroes. That was a Type 2 fun kind of day. Incredibly, our expertly eco-conscious production designer Amelia Steely made sure we generated only two bags of trash even with all that mess.
The sound is so critical – the squelches, obvious porno soundtrack and the horror like ‘devil in the ear’ alongside the vintage dialogue.
Sound and music were really such massive parts of putting the world together. Something I love about working with Lynn Hong is how music-driven they are in the edit. We spent a lot of time together playing with sound and, in particular, finding exactly the right style of temp music as a jumping off point. That is something I might do differently on the next project. Our composer Matt Bernstein is such a genius it would’ve probably been ideal to edit to his original compositions earlier on in the process. Instead, Lynn and I decided to completely destroy our Spotify algorithms first to find the right mix of camp, erotica and soap opera tunes from the 70s and 80s that we could use as references for what became the score we’re all now so in love with.
Somepoint then also had to build the entire sex scene from scratch sonically because we could not lav the actors while they were swimming naked in sauce and cheese.
For the dialogue, we realized it would be jarring if we didn’t degrade the sound quality to match the degraded image quality. Our post sound team Somepoint Sound did a masterful job finding the right balance so it’s still discernible but has that dated feel. Somepoint then also had to build the entire sex scene from scratch sonically because we could not lav the actors while they were swimming naked in sauce and cheese. Gotta talk to the real porn vets to figure out how they do that on the pro sets. For next time. The pizza goddess is my voice. Recorded into an iPhone during an edit session to see if it would work. I kept trying to cast other people to replace myself but the pizza goddess herself had other plans.
There was an internal structural logic to it that we adhered to, it was never just random coverage.
We know there is a limit with shooting on film to set-ups and coverage but it feels like packed so much in there.
We decided to shoot the beginning and ending dialogue portions on a broadcast tube camera from the 1980s, partially for the style but also to give the actors more latitude to take risks and play in the heightened world without feeling constricted by the limitations of film. The sequences shot on film, the sex sequence and the sequence in the white void, were very carefully planned and choreographed. There was an internal structural logic to it that we adhered to, it was never just random coverage. I think we use basically every angle we shot in the final film. We did take full advantage of digital editing techniques to play with artificial zooms in and out to add back in some of the playfulness that we didn’t have time or film to execute on set. People who love film are not Luddites! Film was just the best medium for this pizza world.
We last featured you in 2018 and it’s a joy to see more creativity overflowing from you today. What’s next?
It’s so exciting to be back, you guys are such a great filmmaker-first platform and always supportive of experimentation. Next is a feature. There’s a feature version of Make Me a Pizza in the oven and also a feature sci-fi eco-dystopia centered around sex workers and commodified human emotions. There are more worlds to build! More sleaze, chaos, and goo!
